Inclusion and Pace-Setting Accelerates Progress

with Laura Torres,

Sales Enablement and Effectiveness Lead, Notion

In this episode, Pete is joined by Laura Torres, Sales Enablement and Effectiveness Lead at Notion. Pete and Laura discuss the importance of inclusive environments, working through roles and skill levels in communication, pace-setting, focusing on progress, and more.


Key topics in today’s conversation include:

  • Biggest challenge for Laura over the past six months (3:35)
  • The importance of data in enablement (5:25)
  • One thing Laura has to get right for Motion to continue to grow (9:32)
  • Laura’s journey in enablement to eventually joining Notion (14:21)
  • The impact of Mentorship (22:35)
  • Context for hypergrowth at Notion (31:34)
  • The importance of inclusive environments (36:44)
  • Pace-setting in enablement (40:42)


The SaaS(ramp) Podcast explores how tech leaders scale from product adoption to enterprise success. Learn more at


Pete Thornton 00:06
Hey, Hey rampants. Welcome back to SaaS(ramp) podcast. I’m your host podcast Pete. Wanted to introduce Laura (LT) Torres to the show today. In just a few minutes, we’ll break in and see what she has to say about sales enablement and effectiveness as she is the lead at notion. I’m sure, you know, notion what an amazing fast growing company can’t help but kind of watch what they’re doing their Okta, top 20, top 10 of this 2023 lists this list that came out, this is March 2023. If you’re listening later, and as an octave top 10 company, they come in at number four, and figma. Just for reference, because ya know, you’ve all heard of figma is number 10. So amazing company, and she has been there for about a month and a half coming from airtable previously Shi, it’s a really fascinating past and she goes through it. Awesome, awesome later, I think you’re really going to enjoy it, especially listening to how she talks about inclusive environments, and how she works through people’s roles, skill levels, ability to open calls and communicate. I think it’s very, very interesting. Also, PACE setting, like pace setting, like how can you go slow to go fast, know that these things are going to be ongoing, the first thing you roll out isn’t going to be the last thing you roll out, and how you can kind of focus on progress over perfection. These are all very interesting tidbits that I gained from LoRa just now. Just now I recorded this just a few minutes ago. So looking forward to that call I wanted to give you kind of an introduction to it and wanted to also introduce you to a rampant little word from our sponsor here. So rampant as a software services firm empowers clients and hyper growth SaaS by revealing and reinforcing reachable revenue. So rampant leverages Gong, artificial intelligence and your CRM data HubSpot, Salesforce, what have you to uncover attainable revenue gaps like find the difference between top performers and the middle of the pack, there’s always this bell curve difference. And drive Gong lead enablement strategy to realize three things, increase win rates, increase deal size, and or faster deal velocity. And that’s moving the biggest segment of your team, your middle performers. That’s that 60% Right there in the middle, your largest group, the most movable group so you know who to focus on as well. That’s rampid Gong lead enablement strategy. Hope you enjoy the show. Thanks for tuning in. Welcome back reference to The SaaS Ramp Podcast on your host podcast Pete welcoming LoRa l. T. Torres to the show today. LoRa is the sales enablement and effectiveness lead at Knowshon. Welcome to the show, Laura.

Laura Torres 02:47
Thank you. So excited to be here.

Pete Thornton 02:49
I’m really happy you got on here definitely had to have you on once I had two very close colleagues from a former organization just telling me like have you had LT on she on boarded me at and like, you know, given the the airtable background, and I was like you very, very, very well put our reach out immediately. But we’d already connected up. So it was fated to be so so appreciate the participation.

Laura Torres 03:13
It’s so true. divine timing, as they say. divine timing.

Pete Thornton 03:17
Yeah. And yeah, we had more stories to that. Like, they all just kind of came overlapping all at once, which is, which is cool. LinkedIn knows they somehow within the algorithm,

Laura Torres 03:27
right? They know will be know

Pete Thornton 03:32
where you are recently at a new organization is like near and dear to probably most of our audience ought to be honest. Like it’s coming up quick and everything. But we’d like to get right into the nitty gritty, so fast. So you can bin this question. Because I know it’s a newer thing. But like, in enablement in general, or specifically at your new organization. What’s the biggest challenge you think you’ve faced over the past six months, two quarters?

Laura Torres 03:57
Yeah. And then I think that for me in the new organization, and going into month two, which is wild, I think everyone can understand at least in SaaS, that time is just a little different. So it does feel like a lot longer than that. But it will see I would say reflect on just the overlap of time between the last organization I was at to where I’m at today. The number one thing I can think of is data. And data is so important to me, um, you know, that is something that resonates with a lot of folks and enablement and to have a true understanding of where to go whether that’s what might be top of mind for leaders in a given moment. And I think that was a challenge that I really faced. Huddle, I know beyond the onboarding methodology workshop. Where do you need to be going next? See? And how does that move from not only being an adult but supported by leading indicators that were measuring KPIs and trying to understand how we’re mapping those next programs or retention training to what’s already been out in the field. So data, I think, is something that I really wanted before. And it’s where we’re absolutely starting as I began this foundation of enablement at notion.

Pete Thornton 05:31
Okay, that’s interesting. So like you’re talking because some people referencing data, it’d be like, certain pieces of customer data or like in the product lead growth realm, it’d be like, oh, you know, what things are leading indicators of when a customer might move up to tears or something? This specifically is referencing onboarding to ongoing, like enablement, effectiveness, it sounds like would you double tap on it for me?

Laura Torres 05:56
Absolutely. So it’s exactly that it’s that effective? See, if we’re looking at like a ramp period before, let’s just say in a II of what does their week one to their month one look like? And how do we truly say that that seller has ramped? What are the key indicators that we’re looking for? Are they having X amount of discovery calls? Are they finding x amount of opportunities? How often are they presenting their new business meeting? I think that as I was in the midst of building a program, that’s always something that I would think about. How do we get beyond the current enrollment and look ahead? And then how can we make sure we’re measuring the impact of where we’re going and where we need to continue moving as we get through? Maybe that initial program? So are we thinking about the next step and the next step as you’re planning around where you need to start?

Pete Thornton 06:59
Yeah, okay. So this is a huge challenge, because you’re dealing with somebody’s growth. For them. We’re looking at evidence without trying to be narrow minded about it. Like you’re dealing with humans and different learning capabilities, you’re dealing with changes in product changes in strategy, just growth, overall headcount coming in left over, right, you could have multiple roles, different levels and skill sets is a massive challenge. Like in science, former science teachers get to measure one variable at a time and enable it. You’re like, yeah, sorry, sorry, give it a shot. When you’re talking about looking for data and good data, this is not as simple as opening up your latest dashboard and just Wallah, it’s there unless you work very hard to create that and MRI.

Laura Torres 07:42
Absolutely. Right. And I think that it’s continuous to have it’s not just around a specific product launch, it has to be continuous of where do you folks need help? I think exactly what as you’re walking through the description of all the things going on around them. It’s being so empathetic to which are we not providing too much enablement at this moment? Is this in a time where it’s not overwhelming, but it’s helpful, and they’re also still able to, you know, do their job. So it’s how do you create a space, a foundation where they feel supported, they’re able to access resources when they need them. But you’re also able to give that holistic view of what’s working, what’s not, and where you can help and guide the rest of the organization to see that as well. So I think that’s where, like the other challenge, I think, might be just finding alignment within your organization. And I think, fortunately, I have been on the side of finding alignment very quickly. And I think that for enablement, you work with a lot of different people, not only sales, not only customer success, or services, or SDR BDR. Those leaders also work with product marketing, and you work with marketing. And I think that’s a really, really important relationship so that we’re all speaking from the same, or singing from the same sheet of music. And we’re not confusing the field in the midst of all the chaos that they’re facing, but we’re helping them see how all those threads connect and are meant to support them.

Pete Thornton 09:24
Okay, okay. Yeah. And alignment as well. Yeah. So very, very, very common because you’re the central, the central, no axle, maybe on like a lot of different spokes that are popping off and like all have to do with that go to market motion. enablement is tough. So so cross collaborative, like very interesting, though never a dull day in that spot, so many variables though, suddenly spokes, all these different all these different pieces. So it’s kind of it you’ll never be able to, like fully do any of the answer to this next question or anything like that, but it It is a great exercise because like if you had to come down to just a thang, so what would the one thing you would have to get right for your organization in order to grow? Like, like, reach goals for this next, say maybe two quarters?

Laura Torres 10:15
Yeah, I mean, I think that I immediately think again, of alignment, I think that it’s just so so important. So to double tap on that what you absolutely need, you need that alignment. Because to me, that leads into a variety of different places of enablement, is Croft collaborating with all of these teams, and including rev ops. You know, I think that for me, here, I sit on the robot teams. It’s just really helpful in the midst of all of that data. I also have insights into, you know, the tools that we’re leveraging, which is really helpful, or the system updates that are on the way. So I think that by having that alignment, and I have like a very sub bullet, there is a comms, communicating that out with the field so they understand what’s on the way. And it’s almost like creating your own roadmap and helping them see where we’re going. And that they can feel rest assured that in the background, this is all happening. And I think that that’s really important for the field to feel supported. And, really, I think that’s where enablement comes through to boil down and distill all the important parts that maybe you have line of sight to that they don’t, but you’re not sharing, like a brain dump of all the things and sharing the most important things. So they feel good, they feel supported, but they don’t again, feel overwhelmed with everything happening around them.

Pete Thornton 11:47
Yeah, okay, that’s a great point. And like the alignment piece, nobody would disparage at all the comps piece that you mentioned too, like just letting them know, in a regular pattern. It kind of does, it informs. But do you find it sets expectations to like when they come with something else that could maybe be woven into another project, like they understand, oh, there’s a system that fits into. So there’s like a place where you get three great new ideas, and you’re able to maybe like, align them in their appropriate places, prioritize them to and then have them understand like this will probably roll out over X amount of time period, because you got like a roadmap set up? Like is I don’t know if that’s ever anything just like you felt overwhelmed with before? But I have?

Laura Torres 12:37
Yes, I think that I would think of my role and what part I play, I think comms is one of them. I think that also just being the ever connector of dots, I have the privilege of meeting with so many different teams. And folks, and I think that goes on either side, you know, I’m sitting in the midst of all of my cross collaborative partners that I have, I also am sitting on the left hand side of me, of course, is to go to market and they have fantastic ideas. But I think, by sharing what I’m working on with them in this roadmap sense, I said that expectation that, hey, maybe this isn’t going to be able to fit today. But let me talk through some other projects we have going on, where we can maybe attach these so that this session becomes even more impactful for everybody. So on the dates, what can we do to make the most use of our time together, because your time is valuable. So it’s also that I think, expectation setting with them has a boundary setting that I’m never going to take you out of the field unless I’m fully confident it is worth your time. And there’s something that you can take from that enablement session immediately and put it into action with your day to day and it’ll help you in some way. So those are the important things for me when I when it comes

Pete Thornton 14:07
to that. Yeah, that’s great. That’s great and great expectation. And once they’ve come to 123 kinds of enablement, lead training or events and then start to get that feeling though. It’s almost like maybe hopefully that Pavlovian response, like you’ve got up over. And now they’re like, yeah, it’s kind of it’s happening like they’ve been trained to, to look forward to those and then to go leverage them like, Okay, so I’ve never quite heard the same story in enablement, twice of like road to enablement. How you got there. There’s like, instructional design, background learning and design background. There’s a sales background. There’s, there’s, there’s others, you know, but for you in particular, what were your own professional experiences that kind of led to this opportunity at notion today?

Laura Torres 14:51
Cat I mean, you’re so right. I think that I do want to preface that when it comes to enablement. There’s no right background, I think that, that can also be a bit of a controversial topic in itself. But I think how I got there might not be how others have gotten there. And I think there’s just lots of right ways. So I think really, for me, inclusion is so important. And I think when it comes to enablement, it’s important to lead with that. So I wanted to preface that, but what it looks like for me is, I am from Texas, I went to Texas State, and I was an anthropology major, I started my journey in education, just fascinated by humans, and just our evolution and how just culture has just impacted all of us in this crazy world that we live in, mind you, like many other subset of things, we can dive into there. But nonetheless, that’s how I started, I really was interested in the psychology of humans. And I think that’s what set me up for my first sales role. I loved the research part of anthropology. I loved Critical Thinking. I had a professor who had us write the antithesis to any research paper that we had, he had us do the opposite of what you might expect from reading this research paper. And I want you to write the response of everything they got wrong, and how you would have gone about it in a different way. And that was just an incredibly pivotal moment for me, just thinking through things from a different perspective. And when I got to sales, I had this idea of, I’m just going to pay down my student debt, and I’m gonna go to grad school. I love anthropology, I want to keep going and on the path. But then I fell in love with sales. I was working at CGI, which is a technology company in the channel. And I think that that was such an impeccable part of my career. I was at this company for six and a half years, I grew up there, I had the incredible fortune of having one of the most impactful sales leaders my career in Austin, she really took me under her wing and helped me understand how to ask really valuable discovery questions, how to do the right research, how to own a meeting, but also provide value and lean into project management. And that’s what set me up for success when I moved to the field. So I started my career in a SDR BDR like role and I was smiling and dialing. But once I landed some customers, I got to build my book of business. And it was so much fun, I sold it. So that was like anything from a computer to cloud data center to Microsoft contract, which I really like nerded out on because I just love the all of that realm. But I in that role learned of an enablement program we had internally. And essentially, it was like a day in the life of a field at EA. And this is really where my career completely took off. Because my eyes are open to the possibility of being an appealing seller, I had a mentor who I got to not only chat with because and I so appreciate him. But I also got to fly out to Atlanta and I got to follow him around and meetings and see him do draw ups. And then I also got to fly out to see my customers that I had built on the inside in person, shake their hands and meet them in their offices. And I just felt so starry eyed, like, this is what I want to do. This is the most fun I’ve ever had with sales, and I thought that I had so much fun before. So that’s how I moved from Austin out to the bay, I joined our asset field team. And in this journey, that was my first experience with a really successful enablement program. And I always remember that there was a leader in that world that I’ll put a pin in because that’s ultimately how I came back to enablement. But I really loved being a field seller I sold to enterprise level customers, I got to go on site to incredible offices, sell on value really understand their businesses, and my best year as a seller was in 2020 and really had to lean into value selling and Understanding what mattered most to my customers in such a hectic, stressful macro economic experience that we were all going through and being remote. And I would love to help my team in San Francisco and where I could, but I really wanted to help beyond. And that’s where I leaned in to enable that. There was a role that opened, and it was actually a hybrid role. So I was selling, and I was coaching at the same time, which is, you know, it’s, it’s double time I practice what I preached, you know, I really would take everything that I was coaching on, put it into action. But ultimately, I had to make a decision on whether I want to keep selling? Or do I want to move into enablement and much reflection on what my Northstar was what energized me, it was seeing that aha moment happened with sellers, it was a leading onboarding session, say was hosting office hours or one on ones and trying to help them scale and grow their own business in their career. So ultimately, that’s what led me to enablement. And eventually, I made the jump from the channel to SAS world when I joined air table. And that’s how my journey just continued on this path to notion.

Pete Thornton 21:30
So great, that’s great, like a lot of, I guess, corollaries that I can understand coming from kind of like a science background and having a fascination with something and like, just the desire to learn something. And so, you know, if you want to learn something like you end up kind of learning how to teach if you have to teach yourself how to learn, you know, when you get truly excited by something doesn’t typically happen in high school. So yeah, collegiate experience. And then psychology, like, like, that was a heavy dose of psychology, and anthropology. And you mentioned critical thinking, like, that’s the most critical, critical thinking I’ve ever heard. He’s, like, now say, What’s rolling back this, and critical and critical thinking, but like, it’s, that’s a great, that’s a great exercise, like, and especially because it’s, it’s not so in your face to anybody else. Like, it’s just like, what would you it’s, it’s a self reflection is like the depth of self reflection you can do in that instance, because you’re just contrasting thing after thing that was, that’s pretty cool. I always try to think like, how can we flip that, like, what would we do, but it’s a little I came to bad things, it’s like, all we’re gonna break down this call, I’m like, alright, well make sure they’re not in the room. Like, if we’re going that hard. But a cool, like, maybe that’s a self reflection that you do. So like nobody’s hurting your feelings, you can just crush your own crush. And then you had a couple of mentors throughout that, that period of time. And it sounded like there was there was like, two things that you were getting out of that it was like something from the person themselves, you’re like, oh, okay, because this is somebody who like, you know, had some form of alignment with because you, you enjoyed what you were learning from them. And then like a process, like there was a, there was kind of something around like controlling a deal. But adding value there was just like, look, there’s this very sales component built in where like, you need to structure this thing. And then, but you need to give them more than they expected. And it was cool to kind of hear that you like to get that good emotion from meeting your customers or like being with this mentor, and then understand this very tangible like, there’s a science behind this as well. And so like as you were talking through him, I think she was going to get you were basically going to get your, like graduate degree that you meant to go get elsewhere in sales, because it sounds like you’re treating it exactly the same,

Laura Torres 23:42
basically. Yeah. And I think that is honestly I, I cannot recommend enough to find leaders or people in your network that can help you get to those points or have those moments of self reflection. Because that’s honestly what helped me continue each step of the way. I think, from Austin, I had an incredible sales leader who did talk me through the both sides to that. And I think as I moved to the field, something I really had to keep in mind with another incredible sales leader who was all about the data. And he really helped me not only look at my current month, but to look at the quarter to look at these year and find ways to be realistic with myself in Do I really have the pipeline that I think that I do. Do I have like all those pieces to your qualification framework filled out in a way that I can confidently say that this is going to close? Like what what are the true reasons that I’m calling this number and why I’m saying this is my forecast. So he helped me use the data in a way that I Read it action and also accountability. And I think from an enablement side, one of my favorite questions I had with this leader, my she loved to ask, How many times did you say no today? How many times do you tell someone? No, in your experience today? And she would challenge us to say no. And I think that that’s really an an important reminder that I carry throughout my career. Because as someone in enablement, you’re often asked to do everything, you know, there is anything to be done, you’re going to be looped in how do you know when to say no, and how, or when to say, let’s do this at a later date. So I think that I’ve had a lot of really important people in my life that have helped to direct me and have me like, pulse check on what I’m thinking and how I could get to that next level. By the time I got to the air table, I had a leader who was just so empathetic and really helped me lean into the learning aspect for you know, your new hires are that ongoing enablement of how they will receive it? Are we training in a way that they can really pick up and get immediately? How can we break this down in a way that is simple, yet impactful? So I feel like I’ve been fortunate to have these mentors, leaders in my life that at all of these very important stages in my career, not only be there alongside me, but challenged me to think of things in a different way, in an effort to create a more impactful, enablement program and grow myself as an individual and, or in my career.

Pete Thornton 26:54
That’s interesting. Okay. Yeah, very cool. And this whole thing, I’m like, the how many times have you said No, today that’s a you know, one of enablement is like, just like, if you look it up in the dictionary, no sales enablement, what it’s like to help kind of like me to mow your lawn, like is it being it’s, sometimes it’s analogous to that drawer in your kitchen that you like, it’s not for the forks is not for the, you know, it’s the everything else drawer. And that can be detrimental. So I’m pulling out the one critical thing out of that being like, ooh, that’s interesting, because I’ve just not heard a leader say it repeatedly like that, which is kind of interesting, too. Yeah,

Laura Torres 27:31
I, that leader was incredibly impactful still is very impactful for me, especially in my enablement career, she also really challenged me to find ways to celebrate. And I think that’s another big part of enablement. I carry throughout my career of celebrating the little wins just as much as you celebrate those big wins. And she would challenge us at the end of each week to put a slide together that included all of the things we were proud of that happen not only from like a quantifiable perspective, but what you personally felt proud of, and things that happened to that week that you wanted to share in a space that was not only open to bragging on yourself, and a bit away, but also that self reflection again, Hey, eat might not feel like I’m making progress, because there’s so much to do. But I am making progress and looking at everything I’ve done so far. So she instilled a lot of really important enablement foundations for myself. And it’s definitely like, Whenever anyone asks me, like, what are some words of advice that you’ve had, as you’re thinking of enablement? Those are always two things that I mentioned of learning how to say no and, and celebrating, you do have a lens that you’re taking time to really lean into being proud of yourself. I did that thing and little things make a big impact.

Pete Thornton 29:03
Oh, unbelievable. Unbelievable. Important because it’s so difficult to do that and you’re not like it’s so hard sometimes when it’s a razor’s edge of a closed deal or not. But a close deal is obviously a celebratory event for yourself. And for others, even getting a meeting. There’s very quantifiable things in sales. They kind of slip when you move into enablement. And there’s this project base pieces that move regularly but more slowly perhaps and things like that used to have a success jar. It was a mason jar, I don’t know if people know what mason jars are like, this is like South Carolina and your intent you’re from Texas, so maybe you know, but it’s like I literally had Yeah, okay mason jar there, get your sweet tea or your or your Smoky Mountain Tennessee like moonshine and basically but it would, I would have this little scrap of paper and I would just try to write down some things in there and just the act of putting them in and and whenever I was like, I’m gonna I’m gonna die I’m so tired. This is not working. But if you dump them out, you read through like, oh yeah, came along. Long way. And I do a similar thing now, like what should happen in the next depends on how frustrated I am two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, and then it, it just shows up on my and I go back and look and tally up. And I’m like, Oh, I did a 5.5 out of seven in my little grading system. So helpful to somebody like me. Interesting that you all had that in a weekly cadence and format. That’s a note for myself on that one.

Laura Torres 30:27
It was helpful, especially early in my career, to have a place to remind myself and I love a good mantra too. So I like being in my home office. I’m really big on writing like a phrase, at least for the month of what this month’s focus looks like. If I’m in that moment, it’s like I’m tired? What can I look around and see, like, instant reminder of, I got this like this, I’m going to take a breath in. Maybe it looks like I’m gonna go on a walk, or I’m gonna call a friend. How do I remind myself that I’m not alone, I have such a vast community that wants me to succeed. And I think that that’s where like, especially in enablement, you need to find that community to lean on, whether that’s your personal community, or your significant other or your friends, or your teammates, and colleagues or finding that enablement community, like on LinkedIn, like enablement, squat is an awesome, like space of folks that experienced that same day to day they really get Yeah, and I think that’s really important to have.

Pete Thornton 31:40
Yeah, that’s great. I love that. And I think you’re absolutely right about that. Quickly, because I know you haven’t been there long, the notion is just absolutely blown up. I already mentioned that Octo 2023 lists the fastest growing, it’s number four. And just for reference for anybody else, like as you go through this amazing list figma, which everybody’s very aware of because of a recent transaction they made or per acquisition is 10th. So if you just had to take a wild stab at it, what’s the context for hypergrowth? At a notion?

Laura Torres 32:16
Yeah, I mean, I think that from a personal standpoint, I use this notion in my daily life. Even before I joined, I thought notion is such a powerful product, because you can do so much in one location. It really is that connected workspace that for me, when I was a personal user, it’s where I would keep a Kanban board of my day to day activities. And what I was focused on is another great way to reflect on everything that you’ve completed. And I would really keep track of my meetings, creating notes. And I mentioned all of this because before I even joined the notion, it was just so easy for me to pick it up and run with it. And I think that what we’re saying and it’s no surprise of where it is on that Okta like report that came out, because there’s just so much love for this product. And I can’t speak of it. And I haven’t been here for enough time like the true success, you’ll but what I can say is that people really love this product. And I think that it’s so unique in a space where I am sure you can resonate with us. But you’ve joined a new company, and you learn that they don’t have the tech stack you thought they did. And when that happens, they think that at least as someone joining a new company, you want to be up and running, you want to be able to find your resources as quickly as possible. You want to be able to keep track of what you’re working on, maybe even your onboarding program in itself. We’re also able to find the directory of people you’re meeting with. So for me, I think it really just comes down to love and the love is for me, also adoption. And I think that’s really what attracts people to this product, that there’s an incredible community surrounding it. And there’s so much you can do with it. And it’s easy to use and you want to use it.

Pete Thornton 34:26
Yeah, yeah, I definitely gather that like this, like true product lead growth where the product speaks for itself and people come to adopt and at some point, those things just take off. It’s like a longer tail. It feels like I want to reach there. But when it’s up when it’s a beloved product like that, from the enablement perspective, it’s so cool when things can be a little bit meta, like they’re learning about no notion, like as you onboard them and stuff like that. It’s so very helpful. I know like, you know, of course Golang partner so like, you know, as soon as they come in, they’re just living in Gong for their onboarding, which is such a perfect, which a perfect circulation of, and then another companies you can like build an app with if it’s like a fork for like a low code, no code tool before, which is kind of a fun thing. Or however you can incorporate the product into the everyday life of the people coming in. So at that point, I’m sure people are coming in like gangbusters for it already. And then, and then you just add more fuel to the fire by adding your programs on top of that. So that’s a fun thing.

Laura Torres 35:28
Yeah, totally. It doesn’t make it a lot of fun. I think they’re even like from my perspective of, I had some prior notion, knowledge I’m joining, I’m learning even more ways for it to be powerful and cool Leon inserting my month to buy, I feel like the sky’s the limit. And there’s so much important education on it if you want to get to that next level. So I think that that’s another part of like, this space, that’s really exciting, just in general, that there is this move toward being able from an individual standpoint, pick up a product and be able to use it, feel so passionate about it, that you take it with you to your professional life, or you learn that it’s in your professional life to and you’re even more excited to do your work. I think they like thinking of legacy tools. I know that there are horror stories of making a change and knowing that’s going to take a long time to actually come to fruition or ask if we have to use this tool we don’t want to but we have to. It’s just interesting to just be in this space in general, where people are gravitating towards different products than they’re seeing the true value by using them. And not only for themselves, but for their teams and their companies and all the value that they can get.

Pete Thornton 36:52
Yeah, it makes sense. I’ve definitely experienced that myself. You have something that we spoke about a little bit earlier that you were passionate about. And I would love to dive into it basically around inclusive environments. Do tell me a little bit about it.

Laura Torres 37:07
Yeah, absolutely. I think that inclusivity, to me, is creating a really open, trusting space where all people are welcome to share their thoughts and conversation and questions. So it’s something I always like to lead with, especially when I’m creating and leading onboarding programs, because it helps folks feel comfortable to ask questions, and also helps remove that fear of asking the wrong question or feeling dumb in the moment. And I always joke in the spaces that it’s not there’s no such thing as a dumb question right now. But if you wait six months to ask him this question, you should have asked right now it’s a different story. But I think it is speaking to a variety of audiences extra me that was not only AES, but SDRs, BDR, CSMs, implementation specialist, so anyone in the pre sales world to the post sales world and and helping them all see how this session could be beneficial to them, whether that’s just that expectation setting, and what happens even before they get involved to just understanding how to best partner with the other person for handoff. So, for me, inclusion in our world looks like making sure people understand that they belong at the table, they should ask those questions, and there’s something for everyone to get from the session we’re talking through. It also means accessibility to me, I think that a lot of people like to learn differently, whether that’s video, whether that’s text, whether that’s an elearning, maybe people really appreciate live sessions and workshops and role plays. So to me, inclusion can mean like the learning perspective as well. And of course, like the bottom line, what it obviously means is just being inclusive of all different people that are in the room. I think that there can be a gravitation you notice when you kick off a meeting by talking about the latest sports game that happened that weekend. And I think it’s recognizing that not everyone is into those kinds of topics or finding a more neutral fun topic for me has been really important. And for me, that’s music. So that’s like opening up a session with some Lo Fi or having people talk about their recent concerts they went to or just finding topics where everybody can share their opinion. And then inviting folks to the conversation in a way that is like, hey, SC I’d love to hear your perspective on what we just discussed. What do you think about this topic? And using that as a safe way to bring people into conversation rather than like the, hey, if you don’t talk, I’m going to call on you, you know, like a stereotypical approach. So I’m not trying to get you, I really want you to be a part of the conversation. And for me, that’s how I’ve been able to create inclusive spaces.

Pete Thornton 40:19
It’s interesting because it’s like a broader view of it than I’ve heard before. And there seems to be like, there’s just a very, there’s an intentional approach to it. Like, we have like these five different roles. Let’s see if we can like, let’s see how we can systematically. It’s really funny. It goes back to this almost like scientific approach to care, whether it’s like graduate school for you are learning and sales or learning enablement. And then just kind of opening that up across additional categories. And listen to I’ve got to let you back to the notion soon. Like these, like these talks, they sometimes just go so long, but you mentioned something else that I would just be remiss if I didn’t get your take on and it was around, it was a haste setting, pay setting, and it was intriguing to me before. So I’d love for the audience to hear that too.

Laura Torres 41:06
Yeah, I think for me, pay setting is a big part of the notion. It’s a big part of me, I think that when I think of P setting, I always think of two phrases that I hold near and dear one is progress over perfection. And to double click into that, that to me means that we’re going to remember to iterate. And that’s the whole, at least for me fun, energizing part about what I do, it’s never going to be perfect. And it has to let go of that standard hope for ideas. And just remember that once something has been launched, that’s not the end all be all, we’ll continue to make it better. And we’ll continue to add on or create retention training or do this again, in a different way. But it’s just the act of trying something. And that really leans into failing forward for me. And I think that failing forward and enabling the world is just trying, you know, just trying something, and maybe it’s a little different than what you’ve done before. And maybe the audience really resonates with it, or maybe they don’t based on you know, your survey feedback that you get, but you don’t let that define you, you move forward. And I think that’s where the other big value that I resonate with is that growth mindset that is not a fixed mindset, you know, is tied to the outcome. And if the outcome doesn’t happen, then it’s time wasted. I can’t believe I did that, versus that growth mindset, which is, maybe the outcome didn’t happen, how you thought that it would, but I’m learning from it, and I’ll continue growing, and it isn’t the end all be all and it wasn’t time wasted. I’m just gonna keep trying and keep iterating. And remember to be kind to myself through it all. So pay setting, it’s moving quickly. But it’s always like thinking, ” How can I slow down to speed up? How do I make sure I am gathering all the intel that I can involving all the right people that isn’t slowing us down. It’s helping us get to a point where everything is more impactful and it all connects. So that’s what some of that means to me.

Pete Thornton 43:27
Yeah, that’s great. And then wrap up the week with a slide that says these things move forward, have some growth, smooth, go slow to go fast. You hear these things often but it’s really nice to have them in the enabled context. Well, sometimes we wrap up with other questions, but I just got 40 minutes and I gotta leave you, let your team have you back. LoRa? lt Torres can’t can’t thank you enough for coming on. I know the audience is going to get a lot of value out of this discussion just like I did. So really, really appreciate you coming on SaaS Iona podcast. Awesome.

Laura Torres 44:01
Thanks so much, Pete. I hope to be back again soon.