SaaS = Science + Art as a Service

with Daisy Chung,

Director of Sales, Orum

In this episode, Pete talks to Daisy Chung, the director of sales at Orum. Together they discuss the importance of hiring the right talent and the context in which hypergrowth occurs.
Play Video


Key topics in today’s conversation include:

  • The challenges of hiring “right” (0:49)
  • How Daisy got into sales (12:59)
  • Introducing Orum (24:48)
  • The context for hypergrowth (28:30)
  • Tips for aspiring directors of sales (30:28)
  • What SaaS(ramp) means to Daisy (32:09)


The SaaS(ramp) Podcast explores how tech leaders scale from product adoption to enterprise success. Learn more at


Pete Thornton 0:00
All right. Hello, rampants. Welcome back to The SaaS(ramp) Podcast. I’m your host, Podcast Pete. Welcome to the show Daisy Chung, Director of Sales at Orum. Welcome, Daisy.

Daisy Chung 0:17
Thank you. So good to be here. Thanks for having me today and excited to dive right in here.

Pete Thornton 0:22
Yeah, awesome. Awesome. Okay, well appreciate glad you are, because we’d like to kind of get right into it. So you are director of sales at Orem. Now, this is something that you’ve been building a team than Orem for, like coming on three years. So wanted to know, in the last quarter or two in particular, what’s a big challenge? What’s the one thing that’s really that’s really kind of like something to be overcome right now?

Daisy Chung 0:47
Yeah, so I’d say let’s backtrack to the first quarter, six months ago, the biggest challenge was to hire quickly and hire correctly. So our team has grown tremendously quick this past year. And we had a sales team of probably five or six earlier this year, and now we’re close to 2730. What that means is we have to hire people, but also hire the right people and make sure everything gels together at the same time. And now, six months later, you know, after those first few months of onboarding, hiring and recruiting, now, it’s all about signing the onboarding process to make sure they’re off to the races and we have consistency. When you’re hiring super fast. You hire lots as different personalities. You can get a lot of different results. We’re still new in our sales team, where it’s super important for us to make sure there’s consistency and how the reps are performing with the playbook we have today.

Pete Thornton 1:41
Oh, okay. So much good stuff right there. Like these are the because we’re sharing challenges now like very similar postman as it is arm it sounds like. So like, can we break that down a little bit? Will you just take us through the hiring process? And then maybe like, let me dive in and ask you what good looks like or recording not as we go. So we just start at the beginning when you’re trying to recruit somebody in. What are you looking for? What’s the challenge there? Why don’t they just show up, knock on the door, “You great! You’re perfect. Come on in.”

Daisy Chung 2:14
So the biggest challenge is because a lot of times when you’re hiring, you look at numbers you look at if they’ve been to President’s Club, how long their tenure is, there are gaps in their employment history. Those are common things recruiters and our sales leaders will look for. But that’s not enough. You have to dive deep into what those numbers mean. Was President’s Club mean? What does it mean to be 20%? Of your number? What is your number? What is your average deal size? How hard is it to close a deal? Make sure that’s resonates with how you close a deal at your company? Because I’ve always been a believer, you can be a rock star a somewhere that doesn’t mean you’re a rock star a everywhere else, you have to make sure that candidate actually fits in can they work with your ICP? Well, can they speak the language? Can they follow the process and playbook you have put in place a successful? And what kind of person are they? You know, numbers only say so much. But you got to dive deep into their personality? Are they naturally hungry? I think naturally curious what motivates them and ask the right question to uncover that because all the times in sales leader know that one wrong hired really deterred the entire year because then you’ll have to put them on a pip, you’ll have to essentially fire them, you’ll have to re-recruit rehire be envoys that’s almost a one-year commitment. And that’s a lot of ARR you just lost.

Pete Thornton 3:30
Okay. So for people who don’t know, you will, if you’re listening to this, but PIP is performance improvement, plan, error, annual revenue, recurring revenue, and these are things that you’re trying to know whether somebody can do well or not do well in a short time period. But what Daisy just said is, it’s going to be a year-long process, like what okay, then break down the ramp. And you can use Orum or you can just use generalizations. Like, how long is it for an account executive who you hire, to get to ramp and what does ramp even mean?

Daisy Chung 4:03
Yeah, that’s a good question. So at LoRa, and previous orthopedic part of ramp is usually a quarter long. Again, take us a bit of salt, it just depends on how big or small your deal size is, I’d say for an average of anywhere from 30 to 60 70k, average deal size, that is a good space to be in. Of course, the bigger your deal sizes, the longer the ramp, the shorter the deal sizes, the shorter the ramp typically is. And so with our three-month ramp, we give our reps an opportunity to get onboard it learning their competitors learning the product, or the talk tracks and the processes learning how to even book meetings at the minimum. And once you get all acclimated, usually the first one or two weeks, the following week, we start introducing them the playbook so they start kind of understanding what the start-to-finish playbook is. They start joining those calls and having those calls with their management teams. riding shotgun We want them to make sure that they’re there as support to answer questions they might not know in the beginning. And then ideally, the firt closer first in that first quarter, that’s amazing. That’s awesome. And it’s a great day. But for Orem, specifically, we either have, you know, close up a small mount, err, or that first quarter, and or if a source enough pipeline, so there’s set them up for success the following quarter. That way, there isn’t a full pressure on cash to close you’re not going to make you’re ramping on target earning or you’re off track. But there’s also a celebration to be had if they do close that first deal.

Pete Thornton 5:38
Yeah, totally. And I recall this and, and I had like, an extra month in mind, because I had been promoted, but we weren’t doing the it was before the fiscal kicked off. It was like December one. And I found my first deal cold calling on my second day on the job. And my only problem was, it was going to close in less than 30 days. And I did not even have a plan yet was so much as a commission structure a plan. And so I had somebody wanting to close before New Year’s, and I was like, Oh, I’m so sorry. Could we do that on like the fourth of January instead? Yeah, whenever you want to, we won’t be rolling it out to the 15th does. So I started my year as a brand new account executive with like a deal on day two. And it was like, That’s ridiculous. I’m like, hey, what can I do? That lucky story right there. That is not a common story. And I had been in this organization for a long time in business development beforehand. So is ramp like is when they’re closing deals month over month, or quarter over quarter, like at their actual quota attainment, like or is it time, is it we have a saying in postman that’s “day one to deal one,” or “day one to closed one” would be another way to kind of say that in a catchy manner. Is it just getting them to their first deal? Or is it getting them to like, a certain amount of deals in a recurring fashion?

Daisy Chung 6:56
Yeah, I think that first deal is super important getting to that first deal with the proper steps in place, because someone gets the first deal. skipping steps, not flying the process, not updating Salesforce, not doing the right things and building all the wrong habits or feature deals. But if you close that first deal the right way, find the playbook and make sure you’re doing everything. The correct way that’s gonna follow you for deal 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 now rebuilding the foundation of good habits for all your future deals. So yeah, that tasted the first seal really gets you going, but you got to do it the right way.

Pete Thornton 7:32
Yeah. And there’s like this is a major source of revenue or lack of revenue for a sales team. Because when you bring in somebody new The problem is they’re not closing deals and making revenue on a quota. That’s just for argument’s sake, like be a million dollars or something like that. And so every month that passes that they don’t make it is coming off the top line. And then when you’re hiring. Oh, here’s a question for you just based on again, we’re still in question one this first challenge, but it’s a challenge everybody has was so helpful. On the revenue side, what might be missed, based on the number of reps you have coming in? Are you doubling headcount this year, tripling headcount? What’s the number of new reps versus old? That kind of ratio.

Daisy Chung 8:22
Yeah, so personally, my team is almost fully hired right now. So earlier this year, we were pretty much looking to call it triple headcount. So we had probably, you know, 5656, AES, we’ve pretty much tripled by a couple months ago, this now we’re, we’re axing at this flight, as I mentioned, our positive 27 AES from the five since we start off early in the year. And, and yeah, it’s fast growth, but it’s you want to have contained fast growth. So you’re not again, hiring the wrong people. One wrong hire can be pretty detrimental to a sales team.

Pete Thornton 9:05
Okay, so again, on the 4x growth, by the way, that is the most I’ve heard when you’re coming from so low like that postman two years ago, we had three reps. And then now that that entire org is over 100 not Account Executives exclusively, including go-to-market teams altogether. But it’s an unbelievable amount. But again, these compounded misses, like if we’re missing even a month or two months of revenue, when you’re at 4x growth is just huge. So leaders like yourself who are doing that, like there’s a big pressure to get people in and ramped. So then end with a million dollar quotas to you’re just like doing simple math and multiplication and these are like multi-million dollar problems coming up.

You mentioned about hiring “right.” Like and what those steps wouldn’t be to hiring “right.” Let me like not ask how to hire right. Let me ask what happens if you have somebody that’s middle of the pack. Your top 10%, you don’t have to train them. They’re gonna do just fine. Your bottom 10%, you can spend every moment of every day with them, and they’re never going to be fine. That’s just the way kind of the bell curve seems to work I was in teaching for like, 10 years, that’s the way it always works. There’s no such thing as No Child Left Behind, by the way in sales. So it’s a little different conversation. But the middle 80% or even 60%, what are the best ways to work with them? Like whether you hired right or hired? Not quite right? Like, what steps do you take as a sales leader to ensure everybody that’s possible of having success?

Daisy Chung 10:36
Yeah, no, it’s good question. It’s, I mean, the first and foremost is identifying the gap. Where is the gap? Why are the middle of the pack? You gotta understand? Is it? Is it that? Is it them as a person as them there? They don’t care about the job they are, they’re not as passionate, they’re not as motivated, as driven? Or is it them as a person with the art passion, they are motivated, they are driven, but they’re not connecting well with the product or the process or the conversations to be had during these sales calls, as you would identify if it’s that person itself. And from there? Is it attitude? Or is it? Is it effort and alignment? And then, if that’s not the case, or at least seems correct, are you want to jump into the process? Like the other side of things? Like, are they getting fed? Are they using their time wisely? Are they were they onboard it correctly? Were they taught correctly? Did we have gaps in sales ops, so we got to understand where that gap is, before we can jump in and help. I think it’s a two-way street. It’s one on the management, Team sales, they have learned to identify and troubleshoot. We also want to give the autonomy and accountability on the rep as well, for them to self-identify where they think the gap is, and see if there’s alignment there as well. So it’s a two-way street to figure out where the gap is, and for the rep themselves to take the accountability to move forward.

Pete Thornton 11:58
Okay, okay. So identify the gap. Great, love it. And then people product process like, well, what what are they we always referencing these three P’s. So like trying to find out where it would be the, the biggest problem with that person? And maybe, and maybe honing in focusing in on that. Cool.

Okay, then let me back out like we went straight in this challenge is a big challenge is one of the major things that you’re having to handle and try to get right growing up, you know, 4Xing a team within a year. What about yourself, like, what personal professional experiences have led to this particular opportunity?

Daisy Chung 12:35
As in my background, to get to where I am today?

Pete Thornton 12:38
Yeah, you got a cool anybody who’s listening, like I mean, it’s easy to find Daisy Chung, look, just look at our LinkedIn profile. And you’re gonna like, you’re gonna like, Oh, this is a cool journey. This is an interesting journey. Like there are a couple of posts out there and stuff like that, like your Google bio reads. Well, so yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself how you got here.

Daisy Chung 12:58
Yeah, so I fell into sales. I never thought about a career in sales. I graduated college thinking I was supposed to be an HR. And actually before that, I thought I was being finance just because everyone else was doing finance. And so when I fell into sales, I had my manager at that time reach out offering an interview for SDR role entry level and to that interview as practice for my other interviews, actually, and I ended up falling in love with, with the leadership team with the idea of like tech and the seriousness and even like, risk of sales. Something about that drew into me. So I took that leap of faith. And from then on out, it was a no-brainer, that first month look at beat my number I was super excited, I was super motivated, motivated, and that it propelled. Like I’m a big believer, there is a science to hitting your number early. Once you hit it early, you gotta hit it early again next month, and next month, next quarter, it becomes a snowballing effect. Just from that first time, vice versa, if you miss your number, then you’re playing catch up, your mentality is down and has the opposite effect. So luckily for me, I had the former where I was just eating my number month doesn’t land and it just snowballed into, into not just being your number, but my love for sales, like I’ve found it to be a job that’s very creative, that there’s a lot of creativity in deciding how to talk to someone how to communicate, when you should send an email versus just call them directly versus calling someone else of the company. There are just so many ways to essentially create this like who would say I call it kind of entertaining in a sense and deciding what to do to drive certain feelings from people. I think again to boil back to a little bit of my childhood. Growing up one of my first things I wanted to be as a little girl was a Disney star. So I’ve always liked the world and the detainee and just drawing out different feelings from people. And I find a lot of synergy between that and the world of sales. That got me to where I am today.

Pete Thornton 15:02
Very cool highlight. So there are a couple things to draw out of that you mentioned because these are diverse things to this, there’s a science to it. So I’m like, ooh, science, you know at MSI teacher background. And then we have there’s, there’s an art and creativity to it. So this is the art and the science, you hear about these things, but you come upon them yourself. And then you have an entertainment aspect is like the third spoke on this mental wheel on drawing. And, and by the way, I have a seven-year-old little girl and she is walking back and forth. And I like there’s been three outfit changes since we’ve been speaking. I’m so and so like, Okay, so there’s your other Disney character right by there, your doppelganger as a seven-year-old. So that’s a cool combination of things. Let’s just take a minute, let’s pick them off. What is the science first? Because the other two are kind of linked together? Do you follow a methodology? Are you a Sandler person challenger person command of the message, you know, like one of these types?

Daisy Chung 15:58
Yeah, I will say none of those types. I’m a, you got to find what resonates with your voice and your personality. And from that you don’t have to start from scratch. When you join a company. There are high performers out there folks who are winning husbands club being there number at that company. So join the company, there are very high performers, look through all their activity, understand how they close their biggest deal, small seals, how to close that first deal. Look through Salesforce, understand how they write their emails, who they pull all the ways, and then drop it down, look at the mediocre performers, look at what they do. And then drop the gel and the low performers, you should see a pattern of how things are a little different from each cohort of performers. And as you’re listening to their calls, look at their emails, there are many ways that things they say that resonates with their style. And that’s what you want to pick from. It’s not emulating copying the top person out there because how he or she phrases things can come off different from you. Sometimes people are, are fast talkers are very derived and you’re not direct person and you try to emulate that. It could come off awkward, or someone’s a little too slow. You want to every single person that’s good that resonates with you. And you start creating your own type of talk track your own caucus, objection handling. And you’ll see that go very well with you because it matches your personality. Once you find that magic sauce, that’s what you want to use to repeat in your process. And now you’re creating your own process of when you talk to someone, there always has to be a follow-up next step. After you talk to anyone, you send an email, and they respond to that email. But what happens if they don’t respond, you have to have an action item, then you email within a week from now, what happens if they don’t respond to that email, they pick up the phone and call them and the email the next day, and the email a month out. And then a month later, you find other people at that company, prospect them and then you put them on a like a quarterly cadence, whatever that is, every single person needs that next step, including people who hung up on you, very often you get hung up, you could just watch this, you can sometimes you’ll send an email after and then you forget about them. But even those folks, he put them through a process of following up a next step, prospecting other people, he will come back will remember you and now you’re building a strong book of business of people coming back to you from all the all activity done beginning.

Pete Thornton 18:17
You think we have to have a side conversation because you sound lazy in an organized and I’m I’m just I’m sorry that to let you know that this is going to be a problem for you in your career. Oh, my goodness, this is true. This is cracking me up. This is amazing, by the way. So let me back you all the way up to finding that winner within your own program. So these are things that first of all, can I ask is that how you hit your like that? Is that how you got addicted to this sales game? Because you had the early success that you mentioned before? Is that your pattern that you followed them for the very first time?

Daisy Chung 18:52
Yes. So what you do, what I tell folks on my team to do is if you’re going to work super hard at any time, during that beginning, put in the extra hours then, because then you’ll hit your number two weeks earlier one month earlier. And once you hit your number, anything from there will lead into accelerators and extra for the following month or quarter, which puts you ahead and that you keep doing that you’re always ahead and you get to a point where you probably beat your next course number at that first day, that first week that first two weeks of the quarter. And everything is just accelerator. So the next quarter, now you’re in this trajectory of being successful. It’s the same effort as if you see you fall behind, you have to put in double the work just to catch up, putting up the work, just catch up, etc, etc. And so it’s really just a cycle of in that beginning stage, put in extra hours and everything else you worked the same amount of hours, you’re gonna get a lot more results because you did that in the beginning.

Pete Thornton 19:47
Yeah, there’s an inertia that you get to take like a false. You get to take something with you through that as well. When you get ahead of the game like that. It works in academics. I used to do for the First test to make sure I made an A. And then after that, like whatever I can, like you get busy like playing at is college athlete and oh, and biology degrees, pre-med degrees and things that I didn’t use, by the way. And then, but like if you get that a on the first test, I just have a friend who did it. He’s like, if I warm into the semester, we would get the same overall grades, but he was almost typecast as B student, and I was for a student. And then things we would put the exact same things in an essay and we compare, and he would get an 88 and get a 92. Same words almost suspiciously close, by the way. And I think it’s the same thing for sales like you’re they’re going to give you that extra little bit of effort, you know, you’ll be on these QBR. So be like we think you got it, you know those things that can otherwise bring stress and take energy from you later. So I like that tip. That first one that first one’s really interesting, I can remember the person I moved my desk next to because he was the winner, the person I wanted to emulate shout out Josh lead better. I just wanted to be next to him and like find out how he was closing his deals. Because it was not written down. He was moving through a mental process in his mind, a sales cycle, a buyer’s journey and a seller’s journey, a simultaneous and he was doing it all. But he was all inside his head. So I was like, Why did you just say that on the phone in the back? Because it’s what you say, then I’m like, Why did you say then and not two minutes from then and he would unpack all this knowledge inside of his mind. And but you don’t get to do that. Now you’re not sitting next to anybody to headquarters like 99% of the time. So where are you finding that? You mentioned Salesforce. Do you use revenue intelligence? Do you guys use Gong? Do you use chorus? Or do you leverage any of these platforms to kind of dig out these insights?

Daisy Chung 21:35
Yeah, yes, I mean, I look back, this is like, you know, eight years ago, and I did it in Salesforce. And now there are so many other tools that can help with this. And I say in this remote world, this is where we’re management comes in like a manager, if they’re able to pull these different pieces from all the wraps of what works best, and make it an open book to share with everyone where people can feel comfortable, pick different pieces. That’s where the knowledge shares there. And I think that’s a big part of having a good collaborative culture where people feel like, you know, the more you help, the more, everyone wins because everyone, you know, the products always changing. There are always new competitors, things like that. And you can’t keep track of everything. But the more you share with others, the more you get to learn as well. And so I think, in these remote times, it’s all about the collaboration, having when you have your weekly team meetings, or your huddled or things like that, you got to cool these insights from the reps who are on, you know, they’re on the front selling. And that’s where you need all the insights and the wins and why they win, how they win. What type of questions they asked to talk about pricing, there are a million ways toggle pricing, a million ways talk about signing a contract, but having everyone share their different perspective, you know, helps people win, and it’s on that rep, to pull things that resonate with them. And also know that they just can’t say and repeat what the top person says. But you’re out everyone and take the ones that works with their personality.

Pete Thornton 22:58
Yeah, yeah, I love it. So we literally do that. We take is that we use, we take what’s working from closed one deals, why it’s working from coaching points from scorecards from can be slack notes that we happen to see anything where somebody in the note says, Hey, this is great, you grab that it’s current state data after state here was the required capabilities, whatever it is that you’re looking, whatever your playbook says is what works for your company. They coach it say why. And then we actually have how it’s working, which are any of the additional like enablement resources, but now they know it’s from a close one deal. So they care. They’ve gotten coached on it and but it’s usually one-to-one coaching now we turn that into one mini-coaching by grabbing these little call snippets and putting it into an LMS pathway. And what you’re talking about, that you had just naturally done, we like productized and then basically run into these LMS Pathways because it for new hires. Now they know every one of these competencies what worked last month, literally last month, and then for existing reps, how can they increase their productivity? Well, you’re not going to look at the 11,000 Gong calls unless you know the perfect filter set. So we’re just grabbing those things out and giving them these like very curated little TikTok Twitter-esque feel because they asked me if I’m on board. That’s you’re moving you’re following up on people that hung up on you two years ago you’re too busy to go through those Golang calls. So I love the fact that you have come upon that solution as well just in your own work.

Okay, I need to ask you about Orum. We still don’t know what Orem does, and I would be remiss for accompany moving the speed that Orum’s moving. Why Have y’all 4Xed headcount in the sales or just this year? What does Orem do? What is the context for the hypergrowth?

Daisy Chung 24:45
Yeah, no, that’s a great question. Pete. So what Orum is, we’re a conversation platform designed to get folks into more live conversations. So we help folks jump in and make calls and you make calls a lot faster. All the manual work is done for you in the back end all the clicking of a leading off the disposition a integrate straight into folks like the outreach SalesLoft, Salesforce and HubSpot to the world. And it’s all about amplifying the results. So can your reps 234 5x with aura? And why this is so powerful and why we’re going so crazy is because especially during times like now, everyone who needs a 2, 3, 4, 5x, and if you can 2, 3, 4, or 5x, which humans doing, you’re saving a ton of money on headcount span on onboarding or attrition, all that fun stuff. And so not that’s why we’re growing so quickly right now.

Pete Thornton 25:37
Okay, so if I’m coming in, if I’m, if I’m a rep in any organization, and we happen to have oral like, so is it when I need to make my phone calls is taking care of the things in the background? Like, like, gathering the contact number, like what would be the alternative solution? What clicks would you be making? What workflow would you have to go through?

Daisy Chung 26:00
Yeah, so in a typical dialer, typically, you clicked a call, here, the whole call, and they hear the entire voicemail. And then after that, you’ll typically click drop voicemail, and then you click, I left a voicemail, and you click and the call, then you click NEXT CALL pretty much over and over again until someone picks up. So the premise warm is all that’s done for you notes, looking no waiting, on top of that you can do anywhere from 23456 Plus calls at a time. So depending on your connection, you can actually make more calls at one time. Whether it’s just one call at a time, it’s still about two times faster than just any political job out there. Or if you’re doing multiple calls, and it goes to three, four or five times faster. And that’s how folks can get into more conversations and less time and can have 2345 A conversation ideally convert those to meetings, revenue, etc. And, or they will have a ton more time back in the day to customize those emails, customize those voicemails follow up close those deals, you know, all the other things a rep needs to time to do.

Pete Thornton 27:02
Okay, I completely understand because I have used something long ago that was not Orem, Orem was maybe a company at the time, maybe not. And it was a blip in my ear. And I needed to speak and I got a pop-up on my screen. And we couldn’t, when I was helping train the teams as like, as a team lead to how to do that. Like we could not start them early on it because it’s like handing somebody an AK 47. Like it’s too powerful for them. They need to almost move through like that process of slowly learning who they are. Now look at their LinkedIn profile. What do you think you might want to say? Write it down? Like because they need their mind can’t work that fast as something like a worm. And then later on, you can wander around, but do on your fingernails? And then it blips and you’re like, Well, hello. And now you’re having that phone call and conversation that would otherwise have taken you all afternoon to set up for so completely understand. Cool.

Why do you think it’s growing so fast now? Was there some groundwork laid underneath? Like, like, was there a postman the context for hyper-growth is the fact that there was, like, almost 10 million developers before we even stacked in the go-to-market team? Since it was pure product lead growth? Is there something that clicked with the product market fit or product adoption? Was it the fact that there was a series B funding it said double revenue, double headcount, fourth, quadruple revenue in headcount, anything like that?

Daisy Chung 28:28
Yeah, I think it’s the POC Marquez said like early days, a lot of our customers will say things like, how come not everyone buys you guys. Like what? Like, why isn’t everyone by you guys with cat I’m surprised don’t have more customers, things like that. The reason being is because you know, back in three years ago, when I first started, there were two sales reps, and there were only so much demos and so many meetings you can take. And it was pretty clear that there was a huge market as if you have clients saying Why don’t you have more clients? Or no, why doesn’t this it’s a no-brainer if everyone should you be using you guys. That’s when you know, there’s a strong product-market set. And from there, it’s expanding with and examples, not just 23456 in your sales team, you got to make sure the client success team is gelling properly, make sure that engineering is keeping up. Everyone’s keeping up so that you’re scaling holistically as a company in a way that is hyper-growth but also maintained and you’re not going to explode off newer from going too quickly. And so this year, yeah, we’re at the pace we’re growing really quickly is because all the last couple of years, it was setting the right processes and things in place, and solidify our sales playbook. So we can do that and set everyone up for success at Orum.

Pete Thornton 29:40
Nice. Okay. Yeah, that’s fantastic news. Yeah, I like that. It’s fun to find as well, especially if you’re one of the early folks like yourself. Okay. Then let me ask two more questions. And we’ll wrap up because it’s our second podcast we’ve done today together.

First of all, you’ve come through a lot of different career choices and thought processes about where you might move from, whether it be from college all the way through to where you find yourself today in leadership. What would you give yourself as a tip for like it says 10 years ago, but just a long time ago, if you knew where you’re going to end up today, what would the personal professional tip to yourself and be if you were speaking to yourself from 10 years ago?

Daisy Chung 30:25
Yeah, that’s good one, I’d say. It’s important to trust the process, enjoy the process, and know that anything that takes you back can feel like it’s the end of the world. It really is it. And I think it’s applicable to not just professional life, but personal life and just life in general. Because as you get older, and you see things, nine fights, like there are moments where you felt like you’re at rock bottom license over and how can this happen, it feels so unfair, this is why your emotions are all riled up. But in hindsight, really, none of that matters, you will get to where you want to be the time and at the same time, want to enjoy every piece of it, life does not slow down for you, and you’re only getting older, older life is just changing so quickly. You got to slow down to enjoy it and know that anything that happens all away, it’s meant to happen. And I think, yeah, my tip would be enjoy the moment trust the process, and even the bad things that happen in life and your professional world. It’s there for a reason, it’s going to propel you to something even greater. So don’t forget that when you’re going through times of struggle.

Pete Thornton 31:32
I like it. And it reminds me of the kind of tips somebody who has built pipeline religiously for eight years would say, because it’s not, because you know, like, this is not going to pay off for 90 days. 60 Maybe, maybe 30. And so you just have to like, just have to trust the process because you’re gonna be doing something that you don’t know if it’s gonna work for like 90 days over and over and so grueling. So that would be my that was what it made me think of anyway. Okay, awesome.

Then let me ask you the other ending question. This is The SaaS(ramp) Podcast. What does SaaS(ramp) mean to you?

Daisy Chung 32:09
Yeah, I mean, this podcast was great. I think it means that we’re opening doors to what SaaS sales mean, to a lot of folks out there. I’m a big believer that it’s still a new and revolutionising industry. I know when I was in college, no one talks about SaaS, no one talks about being sales, tech sales, like sales was always kind of boiled down on a sense. I think podcasts like this really opens up like it’s not just sales, you’re selling something good. Now moving on selling something else. It’s, it’s very strategic. It’s very creative. It’s changing the tech industry. And it’s opening up doors for a lot of people for jobs. It’s opening up a lot of people to be creative and create more SaaS companies out there. I think podcasts like that will help go-to-market leaders understand what it takes to go to market and double-triple our drip water grown to that unicorn everyone wants to grow into.

Pete Thornton 33:05
Oh, my goodness, when you were saying that? Yeah. Because I was picturing my own life too, is like completely Yeah, totally. It was not. This was not in the cards, and I did not grow up in the bay area. So it wasn’t something where I got a part-time job in high school working for Google. Like there are stories like that. It’s not my story in Atlanta. But because we’re talking SaaS so much and because of your insight before I’m just picturing by the way, I’m still patient because of my daughter, because when you said this is like Disney entertainer and like when you say how creative it is. It’s almost like science and art as a service. Like it utilized if I come in, like it’s like SaaS with some different key and love that. Listen, I’m always looking for the title, name, the title name when it comes out. And I’m just like, I’ll send it to you. First, you have to approve it before we share. That was fantastic. Thank you so much, Daisy, like really insightful. I had a little bit of a review of my selling days through the ways that you describe things, even the product that you guys sell. I was just like, we add that I remember the machine gun like, oh my gosh, I’m gonna have to have a conversation with about seven or eight of my friends from those days later on to, but really appreciate the insights. That was fantastic. And we’ll have to have you back in another year when you’ve yet again quadrupled your team.

Daisy Chung 34:22
Oh man. I’m excited for that now. Thanks so much. It’s been awesome, and thanks for having me again today.

Pete Thornton 34:27
Awesome. Thanks, Daisy.